ABI BENNETTS

Digital PR Strategist at Digitaloft

Newsletter Author | Digital PR | Link Builder

Abi stumbled into the Digital PR industry when she created a body confidence campaign at university, and suddenly journalists were contacting her asking if they could publish her story in their publication. Now this is PR gold!

Abi is an ambitious and creative digital PR professional with a great skillset including, digital PR, media relations, account management, creative campaign strategy, content creation, social media and blogging.

Abi is also the author of a bi-weekly digital PR newsletter - Work in PRogress.

Abi Bennetts
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Digital PR Strategist

The unscripted TAD interview with Abi Bennetts

Watch 39 minutes of pure Digital PR gold where our TAD founder (Mark Preston) gets to know Abi that bit better along with asking some of the deeper questions about the world of Digital PR.

Some of the questions we asked Abi in her unscripted TAD interview

How did you get into the digital marketing industry?

 

I didn't have a clue about digital marketing, or anything else like that, to be honest. I studied Psychology at the University. From the age of 18 years old, I thought that I was going to be a psychologist of some sort. I had a real interest in mental health and I thought I might go on to be a psychologist or psychiatrist or something like that.

Then I got to University and I loved the subject. I found it so interesting. Till this day, I think it's so interesting and I love reading studies.

 I'm still very interested in mental health and wellbeing and stuff like that, but from a job and career perspective, I just felt that it was all quite emotional, and actually, what I was more drawn to was the sort of practical outcomes.

And I think my main interest in psychology was all about people and how people communicate with each other, and how they interact with each other. It wasn't so much the emotional side of that, it was more, if they interact with each other in a certain way, then how does this affect business outcomes, or certain behavioural patterns and stuff like that.

I kind of realised within my first year at Uni that I probably wasn't going to go down the sort of traditional psychology route.I started volunteering for a student Mental Health Group as their social media manager but I didn't really have any idea what I was doing, I was just doing some tweets on Hootsuite and sort of muddling my way through.

 That was all about posting to the university students and sort of signposting where they can get the welfare services.

I created a schedule where basically, I post a nice quote every day. If they were feeling stressed, feeling down, there are all those sorts of things to try and help support students, to motivate them. I found that I was enjoying it, and I was creating a strategy and then obviously reporting back to the group.

And then, I think when I thought this could be a job was when I went into my third year at school. It was my second year on the committee at Student Minds at Nottingham and they'd asked me to come up with a campaign. One that we could push on social and raise awareness of the group. They wanted to get more members, more people involved in the group, and supporting the group.

 

So, I came up with the idea of setting up a naked calendar. It was all about promoting self-confidence and body confidence because obviously, that's tied to your mental health. And as students, we're all sort of finding our way and we're getting comfortable with ourselves and comfortable with our bodies.

I knew that that sort of thing would do really well on social and sort of created a buzz. So, I set the campaign up and we did the calendar. We raised over £600 for the charity committee group, which is obviously pretty great and useful.

Then some of the local journalists in the area caught wind of what we were doing, and it was at that point, I started to do articles for it. I was thinking, hold on, this is quite good. I could do this as a job.

 So yeah, it was kind of from there that my interest sort of peaked in digital. Then when I was coming to the end of my third year at university, I decided that I was too poor to say in Nottingham, which was where I went to Uni so I moved back in with my parents and looked for some internships, additional marketing internship, and luckily found one at Aira, who is a digital marketing and SEO agency based in Milton Keynes.

I did a few weeks on their digital marketing team to sort of learn all things, SEO, paid media and enjoyed a bit of web design, very top level.

It was at that point that they introduced me to the digital PR team. I didn't even know what PR was, but I spent a few weeks on their team learning the ropes, and I loved it. From there, the kind of rest is history. That's kind of how I got into digital PR.

 I feel I've been lucky on my journey so far, because it was never something that I was going into and thinking, right, I want to do this. But I found a job that I really enjoy and that suits me quite well.

How did you feel getting journalists approaching you to ask if they could publish your content?

Literally, it's a dream. I think the great thing about digital PR, I remember when I was interviewed at Aira, and I said to the founders (Matt and Paddy at the time), I'm going to be really honest, I don't know much about digital marketing.

What appeals to me about it is that you have those two sides of creativity, and creating new ideas and thinking of new stories. But you've also got the sort of analytics side and working with numbers and sort of spotting trends. And I felt that was exactly what my degree in psychology was. I found that was like what I was doing in my degree.

Half of the psychology degree was all about numbers and data handling, and obviously, spotting psychological trends and all that kind of related things. The other half was more of emotional sort of qualitative data. That was what appealed to me about digital in the first place.

Actually, I think it's the same in digital PR. Half of it is all about creating those stories and being fun with ideas, but then the other half is sort of working with those numbers, spotting the trends, and in the traffic and like clients, noting keywords and all that kind of stuff. So, it's quite a nice balance for me, which is what I enjoy about it.

What has been your biggest challenge coming into Digital PR?

And it's a good question. As I said, I feel like I've been very lucky so far. Also, I've had great teachers all along the way, both at Aira and since I've joined digital loft. I've had great mentors that have supported me through my journey of learning more technical stuff. But I think one of the main challenges I had to overcome was confidence and sort of imposter syndrome which I think everyone does kind of suffer from.

I think I suffered from it more. But I think mine came from the fact that I knew that I was coming in with no prior knowledge or experience. So even when I was coming in at entry-level, there were people at my level, who had had a year's interning at a marketing agency, or they've done a degree in media or PR. And I literally knew nothing. I felt like I was always slightly on the backfoot, just trying to scramble and catch up. And that is a sort of imposter syndrome. What I was doing kind of stuck with me a little bit and overcoming that was a challenge.

I think not only do you struggle with that when it comes to communicating with clients, you know, whether you're pitching or whether you're managing on a day to day basis. It's also when it comes to the ideas like if you don't back yourself when it comes to the creative side of digital PR, then you're not going to get your best ideas, you're not going to get those viral campaigns that get loads of links and results for the client. And so it's important, I think, in digital PR you need to back yourself and be confident in yourself. That was something that I've tried to work on and continue to work on and through. I don't know, just having stern talks with myself, and I've done a bit of public speaking which has helped with my confidence. And obviously, my colleagues and my past workplaces have helped with my confidence as well.

Does having a personal social media presence help get your campaigns published?

Yeah, it's a funny one, I think it's something that a lot of people in the industry are talking about at the moment. And you know, the question is whether you should be creating a personal brand, which I know people don't like; they find it a bit iffy. I think, we live our lives on digital and as a digital PR, you're always communicating with journalists a lot over Twitter, or at least you're trying to get enough attention in their minds on Twitter and online. So, there's no sort of way for journalists to tell whether a personal brand will help you in terms of pitching. And I do believe that, you know, if you've got a great story, and you've got a great pitch, then you don't need that presence.

You don't need that relationship like that but at the same time, you know, if you've got a good following, and you have or know lots of journalists following you on Twitter, then I think that definitely helps. And also in terms of the wider industry, like, I think just having a personal brand really helps you to represent your agency and the business that you're part of. So in terms of sort of maybe not outright winning new business, but sort of creating awareness about your business, if you're sort of representing your brand and your agency in a good way, then that there's nothing bad about that. And so yeah, I think it's a weird one, because people kind of feel that they have to put in extra work to create their personal brand, whilst they're obviously doing the branding and marketing for these businesses that they're working for.

But I don't think that's necessarily the case. My personal brand, again, I sort of fell into it. And I, when I was I had a couple of weeks in between leaving my last place era and moving to digital craft. And I wanted to create a newsletter and for digital cars, because I felt so inspired by the ones that I was receiving in my newsletter. And I know when I started out knowing nothing those newsletters were like my Bible, like I would read them and get inspired by them, I'd sort of spot trends, but what was working, what made a campaign good, viral, all that kind of stuff. And it basically just, I had some spare time and thought, you know, why not do this. And but actually, that's been a great sort of accelerator for my personal brand, because it's allowed me to, you know, put myself out there, and I'm writing to subscribers every couple of weeks in the industry about digital PR. And so again, I've kind of fallen into it. But I wouldn't necessarily have a strategy for my own personal brand, if that makes sense.

Does speaking at events help you get recognized within your career?

That's very kind of you to say, and, again, I think it's one of those weird things that you always sort of aim for, from sort of a public speaking point of view, obviously, you do pitch for these events, and, but a real sort of personal career highlight for me was when I got asked to speak at an event, so someone emailed me and said, You know, like, we've seen you on Twitter obviously knew at this event, we who speak at our event, and that, for me was a real sort of like achievement, and that someone sort of recognised me out there. Because it is a big industry, there's a lot of names, and there's a lot of people talking. And so while I'd never want to be like, you know, the one who's talking the most, it's quite flattering to think that someone's you know, sort of see me through that and say,

How does public speaking help you in your job role?

Public speaking itself is sort of extracurricular. So, it's not part of the job role as such but it definitely does have benefits. So I got into public speaking errors as they were encouraging anyone who would be interested to take part in training and develop skills and get out there. Obviously, in digital marketing and SEO, there are so many events, there's so many opportunities to voice out there and share your ideas and thoughts and knowledge. So it's great place to sort of be a public speaker if you'd like to, and and I was a bit sort of hesitant again, with the imposter syndrome, not thinking that I knew too much, but from the sort of performance aspect, I've always sort of done performing arts and theatre, so I knew that that aspect of it would be okay ish. And it did take me a while there were a few tears in my initial training. But once I sort of got together grips with it. And it's become a cool way to sort of almost test my own knowledge. It's kind of that thing, you know, when you were revising at school, and they'd say, oh, test and teach someone else, so that you can test your own knowledge, it's kind of that same thing, the more times you share your knowledge and your thoughts, the more confident and the more sure of yourself, you become. So that's been really nice. And, and then also, I think it's just made me not only more confident in my knowledge, but able to communicate that better to clients and to other people in the team. So sort of looking ahead, if I was ever, you know, to be a manager, or looking after someone more junior in the team, I think it definitely gives you the skills to present knowledge that might not be that accessible in the first instance, and and really like a digestible way. And because you have to, when you're creating your deck or presentation, you're always having to think about the audience and how much they might know and how to present it in a way they're going to remember it and engage with it.

So all of that has sort of been really, really useful. And then in a more basic sense, time management, like, creating effect takes so much time and perfecting the sort of performance aspect also takes a lot of time. So sort of fitting that in around work after work any morning, stuff like that. And it's good for getting organised. So, when it comes to public employees, the ultimate thing, if you were asked, approached and asked to speak at their event, you're doing something really well, and you really made it and what would those events look like?

So I think for me, sort of a personal goal would be to sort of speak internationally. And I think, again, there's some great opportunities, obviously, the marketing, digital marketing and SEO community is reactive all over the world. There's loads of events, and sort of cross country. And so obviously, COVID is not the best time to have that goal. But if I could combine sort of travelling and going somewhere new and meeting new people, and from different countries with public speaking, that would be amazing. But yeah, obviously COVID probably is going to slow that goal down for now. And there's loads of amazing events. Brighton SEO is the big one for the SEO and industry so that would be again, amazing. To get the opportunity to go, like speak but also to go I haven't yet. And yeah, there's lots of events left on my pick list to be both a guest and maybe pitches a speaker.

What is the difference between SEO and Digital PR?

Yes, so I'm annoyed. And I've definitely said this before. It does offend. It's like saying like, what is marketing? Where does marketing and digital marketing crossover? It does depend on the sort of business goals for clients. So if they really want those PR benefits and they want to be known in x publications like housekeeping, beautiful, they've got specific publications in mind, then you might have a strategy that's more focused on the PR side.

So pushing out not only those sort of more traditional digital PR campaigns, which are more, you know, data LED, and they have lots of stories, but then then, and that you've also got that more reactive sort of quick thinking PR and the more traditional PR lead like tips. So like, five things to do when you route floods and stuff like that. But they're also building links. So it's kind of a two pronged benefit for the client. And so yes, they're more focused on the PR side, we would create a more PR, focused strategy. If they're more focused on wanting SEO results, then again, that strategy would sort of be flipped.

And we'd still sort of do those hero campaigns or the data lead campaigns to build those links, create stories about the brand that represent the brand and a really great way. But then maybe alongside that, we might look at a tech SEO audit and then doing content for their blog, or whatever, whatever that looks like. And so yeah, it does kind of depend on the client and what they're looking for at that time. And I think anyone who works in digital PR knows that it's not a quick fix. So each strategy is going to be sort of tailored to their long term, whether long term that's like three months or six month goals, is going to be tailored to that and sort of altered and working to that as we sort of go along.

 What is more exciting, the ideation or outreach stage of Digital PR?

 I think that's a really good question. I would class myself as slightly ever so slightly more on the outreach pitching side than the idea side. So I do really enjoy ideas and ideation coming up with those campaigns. But I'm probably, you know, 60 70% on the pitching and the outreach side. So for me, sort of pulling out the stories from a campaign, and pitching that in a really sort of creative way that I know journalists gonna read it and be like, Oh, my God, and then there's just no feeling like it when you search for your clients name, and they come up on like their dream publication, or you get a link on like a top tier national, like that. It's just such a buzz.

And also like, now, I think the idea coming up with the idea is really exciting. And like when you know, when you have an idea, and you're talking with your colleagues, and you're sort of building up the idea, and it's like, you know that journalists are gonna love it, you know that the audience is gonna love it, you know, that it's sort of perfect for your brand. That's, that's great. That's amazing. But when the stories out there, and people are talking about it on social, and like, I've had a couple of instances recently, where my, my boyfriend's parents have been talking about something they've seen on the news like, the Daily Mail, and it was one of our campaigns.

 

And I was like we got, it was kind of like that real, real real effects that we have with our campaigns. So yes, for me, sort of landing that amazing coverage is the best feeling because as well, not only sort of getting the fame and the sort of ego of being like, my campaigns on whatever. But you know, that that's what the clients are looking for as well. So they're going to be really happy with those results. And in terms of sort of, you know, SEO benefits, that's going to really boost their SEO, and further business impacts as well. So it's kind of like a win-win situation. So for me, the coverage and the top tier sort of links, the one for me.

Does a great idea guarantee it will receive press publication?

 Okay. Yeah, Again, it's a really good question. And I think it's a bit of a weird one, because if you've got an amazing idea, then you almost don't need to pitch it. Like the idea speaks for itself; the story speaks for itself. So when you get those goldmine ideas, it makes digital PR if they're working in outreach jobs. So easy, because the story just speaks for itself. So you literally just need to relay that. And it's already wowing the sort of journalists. But then, on the other hand, if you've got an idea that maybe isn't quite as tailored, or maybe there's too much data, or maybe something about it just isn't hitting with the journalists, a good tissue PR can always (sort of 95% of the time, 99% of the time) spin it to find the story in there.

So we've had it on a couple of occasions where for whatever reason, the campaign just isn't taking off the story. There's something about the story that just isn't resonating with the journalists, and sometimes you don't even you can't even pinpoint what that is. There's just something about it that isn't taking off. And like, you know, we can analyse it, and we can pick points out of it. And sometimes you just can't work it out.

But I think Yeah, a good digital PR can always sort of spin it around, whether you're adding something whether you're taking something away, whether you're flipping it, so it might be like the world's best pieces for beaches, flip it to the world's worst, if that gets any coverage. It's all that sort of almost critical thinking of being like, Okay, how can I make this work for any sort of journalists to cover and find a story out of? So yeah, it's kind of a weird one, I think like, you should always be aiming sort of story first, because then as I say, it makes a digital PR job so much easier. And if you have a rubbish story, you can still pull something out of it.

How much research do journalists do to ensure the content and data is accurate?

I don't know, I think that would probably depend on each individual journalist. And sort of like anyone who's got a job is kind of down to their and working ways and how sort of Sarah they are, but their own individual research. And from personal experience, journalists do always really like to verify where the data has come from. So in terms of pitching, we'll always make sure that we have the methodology and a copy of the data for them to view and they often want to see data that's been published within the last year.

And anything older than that. Sometimes it's six months or older, they don't want and they want really new stuff that's coming from a verified source. And so, yeah, and from a client's perspective, obviously, you should, or you don't want to be using sort of old or dodgy data in the first place. So I think amongst most issues, PR campaigns are sort of quite stable on that front. But, from a journalist's view? Yeah, I'd say it depends. That was obviously an error on the journalist in question. But I think generally, they're quite thorough with their research.

If the media has already published the topic you want to pitch but the information is factually incorrect, would you call it out?

Yeah, so we've had, we haven't had this before. But I know there's been sort of the topic before of sort of link building where you go to a site where the link is broken, or like you say, they're displaying the wrong information, or perhaps they're writing about something and you've got something perfect, and that you think could slot perfectly into that. And there's been instances PR sort of emailing and saying, Look, I've seen you've written this, but this isn't right.

Or this is this could work better, or, you know, why don't you slot this in instead. And I think from a journalist point of view, they want to look good in front of their bosses, they're sort of churning out six to eight stories a day, if the data is wrong, and the link and the accreditation is wrong, then you've definitely got more of a standing point to email them and try and get them to correct it. But I think in terms of emailing them something that might work better or something that might compliment it, they're sort of already over that they've moved on from that day that they were writing it.

And so in your example of having the wrong data, then perhaps if the data was completely wrong, and the article is relatively recent, then they'd probably be more interested in updating that because obviously, they don't want to communicate the wrong information to their readers. But again, it does depend on the editorial policy of each newspaper. Some have different guidelines basically on when they'll edit what they'll put in and what they'll include that kind of stuff.

Is Digital PR just a buzz word for traditional PR that generates online exposure?

Yeah, so I think it's,it's a weird one, isn't it, and everyone has an opinion on it, I think the sort of confusion lies in the fact that maybe that isn't the right name for it. So digital PR sort of lends itself to being quite vague in what it entails. And, and also, I think all different types of digital PR agencies do dish to PR in a different way. So that will entail, as you say, a lot of different strategies from and more sort of traditional link building to more sort of like creative SEO, some people call it so like creative campaigns that build links and help with SEO.

So I think the sort of controversy and the sort of hubbub around it is the fact that there's maybe not the right name for it. I think it definitely is different to marketing. And because it sort of has that sort of roots in SEO, and actually everything is focused around that. So while PR is also a massive goal for clients sort of engaging in digital PR strategies, the whole sort of route of digital PR is in SEO. And so yeah, I think it's more about defining it rather than, you know, saying, Oh, is it just marketing? Like, it definitely is its own practice, but yeah, I think, yeah, it just seems better to find.

What advice would you give a graduate who is looking to get into the Digital PR industry?

I think my biggest piece of advice is to be really keen and really enthusiastic. Like I've said it quite a lot before. I've been open about the fact that I am a bit of a keen person in life generally. I think it's actually really helped me in my career because it's the reason why I reached out to the agency that I started in my career when they didn't have any job openings. And I was quite sort of enthusiastic and emailing them and showing them what I could do and showing them that I wanted to work there. And then from there a similar sort of journey into my role at Digital loft. And I think being keen is sort of the best way to learn.

And it's the best way like, my employers at ero didn't hire me because I had loads of experience and loads of knowledge. They hired me, I think, because of my attitude to learning and my willingness to want to get stuck in and my curiosity about industry. I think for people like that, obviously, they like people who are enthusiastic and want to get involved in the work that they're doing, that you can teach someone, anything you can teach someone, any topic that you can't teach a good attitude, or enthusiasm.

And that enthusiasm, I think it is what makes people draw to you. So like, now that I'm in, you know, two and a half years into my career, I think it's that enthusiasm again, which is what draws people to my newsletter or makes people want to watch me when I'm talking because it's that sort of, I know, for me, the best talks that I watch, are when people are enthusiastic about their topic or their whatever they're talking about. So I think, yeah, if you're looking for jobs, or you're just starting in your role, I think enthusiasm is key. And yeah, just kind of quite basic advice. Like, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Digital is like constantly evolving, and it feels like you have to, but you do, you kind of have to be on your toes and keep up with all the sort of changes and stuff. But at the same time, like, you're only gonna learn through making mistakes and finding what works for you, especially in an industry where there's so many different ways you can achieve one goal. So it is kind of about trial and error as you go. So yeah.

What is the one thing that needs to change within the Digital PR industry?

That's a really good question. I think about the digital PR industry and how it's spoken about a lot. So it definitely is changing and there's a lot of noise. There are lots of people sharing their wins and there're lots of people who are not. There's a lot of people just only showing the good side. And you know, I know there's a few people like Shannon McGuirk who is really a great example of someone who's always trying to push the failures. And the fact is that campaigns don't always fail. Anyone who works in digital PR knows that you have those campaigns that do really well and they get loads of links. But for every one of those, you get two or three really hard slog, like you have to wrangle them 75 times.

And maybe the design of the build was a real slog, and that definitely isn't talked about as much, which is understandable, because obviously, clients don't want to see agencies saying, 'Oh, well, this was rubbish, this was really hard, and this failed', and all that kind of stuff. But I think from an industry point of view, and especially someone sort of joining the industry, it must be I mean, I feel overwhelmed by it. I've been in the industry for a couple of years. But for someone just joining must feel really overwhelming to see all these like mega links, viral campaigns, all that kind of stuff.

And so I think there needs to be more of a space like maybe if it isn't on Twitter, or whatever, a space, or a time or some sort of place where people can chat about the struggles and just in a really open way as well without being like, because agencies are always pitted against each other as well. Like, I feel like there's only a few key agencies within the sort of disappearing SEO space. So, it does feel a little bit like you've never wanted to reveal too much because then they'll know what you're up to. And they'll know all this stuff. So it would be nice from sort of a working perspective to have somewhere to sort of share that with other people.

 

Do your digital PR failures make you better at your job as you progress in your career?

Exactly. I think that's so true when it comes to digital PR as well because You know, I think when it comes to campaign formats or stories that work really well, we all see someone do it or we see it somewhere. And we think, Oh, great, and most instagrammed, whatever is working, or dream jobs is working. So let's do that. And then we pommel out loads of campaigns, which I don't think there's anything wrong with that, like, if it works, it works. But at the same time to be that first person to find that campaign or find that format that works, you have to take the risk in the first place.

And obviously, if you're taking a risk, it doesn't mean 100% success rate, you might, you might try something that you think could either go viral, or it could fall flat on its face. So you've got to kind of be taking those risks and making those mistakes and sort of sharing those learnings, at least within your own team, if not sort of in a wider space. And because that's what helps you figure out okay, so it is this aspect of that campaign that didn't work. If we did it again, this is what we change, or maybe we avoid this topic or whatever it is, and sort of taking that forward into your strategy moving forward.

Do you have a personal message for our TAD audience?

Oh, good. That's such a big question. For the last year, sort of things have ramped up. You get more involved in the campaigns and the sort of project management of it all and keep up to date with everything. It can feel exhausting. Also, I think it's kind of the sort of downfalls of being really passionate about your job and your industry that you want to keep up to date with everything. So I do scroll through Twitter a lot. And I just sort of keep up to date with new sort of industry articles and campaigns, especially with my newsletter as I'm constantly on the lookout for stuff to include in that and share with people.

However, it can just feel really overwhelming. And I do personally hands up, find it really hard to switch off. And any sort of subscribers to my newsletter will know that all my intros are about hits on how to switch off and sort of thoughts to try and switch off the Mustang crush, she's really, really anxious, but it's, I think it is really difficult. And so actually is, I think working in digital, where all the information and all your work is so easily accessible. And it's really important to be really strict with switching off and sort of giving yourself that space, even when you don't think you need it. So even in the day to day, I think oh, I'll just like to read on Twitter and be fine. That's not going to have an effect on my mental health.

But actually, if I'm really strict with my hours and say, okay, right, you finished work, don't look at Twitter until the morning, then that can have wonders for me like switching off going and reading a book watching television, whatever it is to just give myself a chance to sort of rest and not have that constant sort of adrenaline of being like, Oh, that's really cool. Oh, well wonder if we could do this for this time. Oh, that would be great to share my newsletter. And it's kind of like a constant stream. So yeah, I went on holiday a couple of weeks ago.

And it was the first time that I deleted everything: LinkedIn, Twitter, all my work stuff, emails. And it felt horrible. I felt really scared. But it was so nice. And I came back so refreshed. And so like, I've been feeling a bit uninspired by my job, which isn't not my job, but just sort of by the industry. Like I was doing what I was doing, but I wasn't really interested in anything outside that which isn't really like me. So yeah, but after switching off for a week, I think it was less than a week. And I came back feeling very rejuvenated and ready to go. So yeah, I think it's about being strict with switching off. And knowing yeah, that it's okay to sort of miss some of the constantly, constantly going sort of information and articles and all that stuff.

How can people get in touch with you and what type of conversations do you want to have?

Yeah, so you can find me on Twitter at Abby Bennett's capital on an MB. You can also sign up to my newsletter plugin there, which is where I talk about being a work-in-progress, which is basically all about constantly learning and never being a finished product. And yeah, as I said, there are lots of tips about switching off. So you can sign up there on my Twitter page and in terms of conversations, discuss anything on digital and mental well being mental health psychology. I love psychology. I love books, as you can see by my case. And so yeah, on anything, get in touch. I'd love to have a chat.